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Questions, comments, requests, complaints:

Discussion

Revae, 2023/12/01 18:18

Just a place in case anyone has specific questions or what have you. Or would like to request a wad to be playable in browser (vanilla only and some wads won't work unfortunately, seemingly due to the nature of freedoom).

Anonymous, 2024/05/31 16:49

Good day, Revae. Rise of the Triangles was updated to the idgames release, you may need to correct the in-browser game frontend. As I decided against creating a new page for it, main and internal page links still say it's a release candidate 1, no idea how to edit it out. Also added Hellscape.

Revae, 2024/06/02 00:18, 2024/06/02 04:59

Cool cool. I'll see about changing it then. Worst case is I have to copy/paste the page info. No biggie. Done. Added both to the RetroArch-Web-PRBoom thing as well.

Anonymous, 2024/06/10 02:44

Would've been nice to streamline the general design of wad pages with the essential “at a glance” info: such as relevant game engine and number of maps or whatnot, instead of writing it out in the description box out of the sole discretion. That of course not at the detriment of making pages any more bulky and unreadable, given the capabilities of dokuwiki. I was also thinking of ways of separating 'author' tags from the main ones, maybe applying some sort of classifications to them. Do you have any thoughts on the foreseeable direction of wadsup, or suggestions for definite and trivial to implement improvements as a site hoster? Is the extra traffic, for example, a desirable risk from advertising the site on some kind of secluded forum?

Anonymous, 2024/06/10 03:07

Speaking of the first bit on page improvements, some sort of sideway label with a custom icon (clarifying the type of wad, game engine or else) with a brief text of extra info underneath would be an elegant solution in theory. What could we possibly afford in practice is a separate text box somewhere close to the wad's title. Suppose if I could manually update all currently submitted articles to reflect such new changes. Screencap of what I'm implicitly describing is taken from doomwiki.

Anonymous, 2024/06/10 03:22

And yeah, Port and IWAD are the most important bits on doomwiki's variant of a sidebar, nonexcluding the proposed 'number of maps'. Download link already has a designated button and author names could be put into the description as they were. Feel free to digest all this word salad at your pace, as you see I'm somewhat liberal at devising explanations.

Revae, 2024/06/17 23:30

Those are good suggestions, to organize the info into digestible chunks. Updating the pages on dokuwiki is the hardest part. I'll have to see what other people have done with dokuwiki to make that easier. It does get a little messy with wads often having a dozen authors. Maybe “Lead author” or something. TBH a lot of the design could've been better thought out beforehand, but I kinda just plowed forward haphazardly.

As for advertising, I figure I'll probably have to set up a proper user registration if the place gets more traffic. Which I should be able to do I guess. But I imagine makes the place less desirable to the anonymous 4chan user the site was aimed at.

Anonymous, 2024/06/18 05:08

Tried looking into the syntax and plugin documentation and it's doubting you could do anything remotely complex with just these, at least I learnt how to properly paste the links. Below is a mock-up of what potentially I'd liked to see, main points:

  1. Screenshots moved to the side to save some vertical space
  2. Color-coded tags below, which I referenced before and could be parsed by the submission form automatically
  3. Download links made into buttons to save space, with the option to add extra buttons/mirrors from submission form
  4. “People” tags separated from everything else as I mentioned. Original page is quite busy, although any such change could be postponed or even fully omitted due to nonnecessity

Regardless, I believe site is already decently functional and all these brainstorming frills might be extra redundant. As is such case with me, I don't expect you to have any deep knowledge in scripts or web coding, I'll try however to maintain the submissions given time and any template revisions you decide to implement. Conveniently, no one besides me and you seems to submit things as of now, so it'll be less of a manual work.

Revae, 2024/06/18 05:39, 2024/06/18 05:40

I played with it a bit today, and this is what I came up with. Ended up with the vertical image ordering too, so that's something doable anyway. The quick-info area is a more basic table format, but even in that form it could be horizontal under the images I think. May even be able to have them appear in colored boxes similar to your example, but I haven't messed with that yet. It is pretty limited overall, the tag listing for one can only be separated by namespace iirc, and that would require restructuring the entire wiki. It's essentially like nesting the page into directories and then giving those directories their own tag list. So every wad would go >wadname>creators>wadpage or some such. All the creator tags would go on the “creator” namespace and the rest would go on the “wadpage”. It's a bit too late for that I think, moving pages in dokuwiki isn't always straightforward and sometimes breaks things.

The @@blahblah@@ is how it links from the wad form to the template. A better header for “port” might be “intended port” or “minimum port” or something. Also the map count might be better as a non-required field, but then I'd have to have a placeholder in the righthand table. Something like “??”. None of this is live yet, it's all just sitting in the workspace/template5 pages if you want to look at them.

Revae, 2024/06/18 18:42, 2024/06/18 22:07

Template6 looks better imo, and works on mobile better too. Well it looks better on desktop mode anyway. Getting it to be more consistent across different browsers borked mobile.

Anonymous, 2024/06/19 08:21
moving pages in dokuwiki isn't always straightforward

I've been playing with namespaces and that's about what I figured.

A better header for “port” might be

“Required port?” Or “Game engine” if there's an intention to branch out into build/quake. I think this'd make the site feel more distinguished, even if amongst /vr/'s userbase only. Unified build repos are non-existent, but then such venture would require more filespace, assuming no other probable drawbacks.

Also the map count might be better as a non-required field

Agreed, putting “Unspecified” placeholder in case of empty input box would be good. Also a checkbox for the mods which have no levels, so that line would be removed entirely, if you have means to do that.

Getting it to be more consistent across different browsers borked mobile

Could be redeemable if we figure out how to make the info table concise and horizontal, there might be no need for headers if values are color-coded too.

Besides all this, template looks good to go. I never done this before, but I might be able to parse wholesite with pages turned into .txt files and Notepad++. Give a call if you think template is finished and there's nothing to improve.

P.S: Single word headers from DoomWiki were good, concise alternatives you might consider are: “Authorship”, “Mapcount”, “Port”, “Engine”. IWAD(s) is not really needed to be plural, as there's usually no such requirement. Also, it depends on your thoughts on capitalization, but sentence casing (Required port, Lead author) looks plain better for headers imo.

Revae, 2024/06/19 17:06

IWADs being plural was more for gameplay mods that work with multiple IWADs. But I'll read this over a bit more and see what I come up with. As is the IWAD tag alone would allow for heretic/hexen wads to be better included.if I do anything for Build Engine games or some such it'll probably need to be a different wiki.

revae, 2024/06/21 00:10, 2024/06/21 00:12

Been trying to get the new template to scale well. Right now template7 scales best. I don't think people will be perusing this on their phones too often, but I do. My phone is p old and has shit resolution so it should scale down to a pretty small screen now.

workspace is the most up-to-date wad-form atm.

One issue I foresee is authors with two names will show up as two separate tags via the “authorship” field. So Graf Zahl would make the tags Graf, and Zahl

Revae, 2024/06/21 00:49

it's live, hope it works. ;-)

Random Anon, 2024/06/21 01:15

Hello Revae, random anon here. I just added a few new wads based on stuff I've been playing and the experience gave me some ideas on how to possibly improve the site.

-First, I didn't notice there are alt-templates until it was too late. I think one of these templates should replace the current default (add_wad page) so people don't mistakenly use the old one like me… IDK if the old pages can be converted to the new format easily, but that'd be nice.

-Editing existing pages generally should have a similar GUI to adding new pages.

-Given the new templates, I don't think “map count” is really that important. The tags are for searching but I've never thought to myself “Damn, I really wanna play a wad with exactly 11 maps!”

-I also think the label “Port” should be “Compatibility” instead. Most wads are designed for multiple ports under a specific compat.

-For the creation page, certain tags should disallow others i.e. you (generally) can't have a limit-removing wad that is also vanilla, or a cacoward winner that's also a runner-up. This is especially relevant for the compat check-boxes that are right next to each other. Checking one should uncheck conflicting boxes.

-I think author tags should have a separate entry box, and that any tags added via this box should be given a distinct visual indicator on the final wad page and elsewhere. Since authors are essentially universal and very numerous.

-You could possibly extend this kind of indicator to other universal wad qualities like year and compatibility.

-Tags should automatically be converted to lower case when listed on individual wad pages for consistency.

-Automatically delete redundant tags. Currently it's possible to add the same tag multiple times to a page.

-Maybe add an option to flag pages for possible deletion.

-When typing additional tags add some auto-fill thing which pulls options from the already existing tags.

That's all I got. Whatever you end up doing, thanks.

revae, 2024/06/21 04:04, 2024/06/21 04:05

Hey anon, hows it doin'. Thanks for adding the wads.

Changing the “port” area to “compatability” makes a lot of sense and frees up a bunch of the check-box tags further down. I could switch all of those to a drop-down like the “year” section has and avoid confliction there.

I can add radio buttons to the form to disallow conflicting tags being selected at the same time. Might make sense for a few options like partial/total conversion but most of the tags can exist simultaniously in the same wad. We'll see tho.

Separating author tags etc is technically possible, but it would require restructuring every wad page which is becoming more and more work. Requires nesting each page in a series of namespaces and it's not conveneient to move pages with their media etc as-is. I can at least separate tag lists on the sidebar a bit. There's already a year section, I could do it by iwad as well. Probably not author since there's just so many of them and it requires entering them in individually.

Map count doesn't affect the tags, it's just general info for when you click the wad.

Some of these are limitations with dokuwiki, which I'm using for the whole dealio. Converting tags to lowercase, autofill, and redundent tag deletion. Editing pages too. It's just how the wiki works. I can look into some of them though. Dokuwiki has a lot of plugins anyway.

I think that's it. Cheers m8.

Edit: oh also, the other templates are WIP and will replace the original. at least, whatever I settle on will.

Anonymous, 2024/06/21 13:58

That's an awesome amount of contribution anon! All submissions were neatly formatted and you even were considerate to spend time picking cool screenshots, big thanks.

Editing existing pages generally should have a similar GUI to adding new pages.

Only if it won't leave out the option to access the text code directly

Tags should automatically be converted to lower case when listed on individual wad pages for consistency.

Generated tabulations by submission form also bother me, just a little

I can add radio buttons to the form to disallow conflicting tags being selected at the same time.

I'd like also to propose checkmark group separation via text headers for ease of navigating, and some new tags. Such overhaul is of lesser importance though and could be left for another day of fresh reconsideration.

General: (Doom*, Heretic*, Hexen*, Strife*), (Single Level, Megawad, Episode Replacement*), (Solo Effort, Community Project)

Compatibility: (Vanilla, Limit-removing, Boom, MBF*, MBF21, ZDoom*, GZDoom*, Eternity Engine*)

Technical: (DeHackEd, HeHackEd*, SeHackEd*), ACS, DECORATE, ZScript, UDMF*, UMAPINFO*, Custom Monsters, Custom Weapons, Custom Palette*, Original Soundtrack

Type: (Cosmetic Mod, Gameplay Mod, Total Conversion, Partial Conversion), Design Restriction*, Speedmapping*, Archival*

Play style: Episodic, Multiplayer, Deathmatch, (Short Maps, Long Maps), (Pistol Start, Wand Start*), Ammo Starvation, Gimmick, Horror, Jokewad, Slaughter

Star symbol for a new addition, brackets for conflicting tags. “Episode Replacement” could be just renamed into “Single Episode” for emphasized clarity. Is there a possibility to add mouseover explanation tooltips? Some groups might greatly benefit from them I think, some less. Examples:

  • Single Level: Only a single map featuring gameplay
  • Megawad: Includes 15 or more maps, no less
  • DeHackEd: Presence of either external or internal DEHACKED lump
  • ACS: Presence of LOADACS or BEHAVIOUR lumps
  • Custom Monsters: Project features mechanically different monsters
  • Gameplay Mod: Optional add-on affecting gameplay
  • Total Conversion: Little to no semblance with the base game
  • Partial Conversion: Enough technical overhaul to be considered a separate game
  • Multiplayer: Cooperative 2-4 Player states “Yes” (consult .txt file)
  • Short Maps: Most maps take less than 10 minutes to complete
  • Long Maps: Some maps take more than 30 minutes to complete
  • Jokewad: Extremely dubious design, reliance on comedy
Anonymous, 2024/06/21 14:09, 2024/06/22 06:42

List of all freshly submitted articles so they won't get lost: A Doom Odyssey, Curse of D'Sparil, Daylight District, Endquest, Escape From Sunveil Starport, Haste, Shadow of the Serpent Riders, jaded, Moonlit District, Pagodia

I've also just started implementing template7, will do in a whole batch next if there's no objections. Tried to fiddle with regex but it's too difficult for my age. Link for a backup archive, 113 pages.

Anonymous, 2024/06/21 14:11

Aaand I botched the links, remove the “wiki:” part so they work

Revae, 2024/06/21 16:01, 2024/06/21 17:09

I can do some of that. Reformatting the layout of the form is something I should be able to do now. It has the weird staggered columns because of limitations I was hitting before, but I think I can work around those now. I can't have mouse over tooltips but I think I can have tooltip icons next the to check boxes. We'll see. I just remembered that I could just use footnotes for that (if it plays nice with the form plugin) It didn't play nice. template8 and workspace are what i did last night. Should look the same at Template 7 in the end, just slightly different under-the-hood. I think I'll also have to add an option under the “IWAD” dropdown for “custom IWAD”. For the rare occasion that happens. I'll keep plugging away at it this weekend. I don't know anything about Regex but I'll look into that too.

Anonymous, 2024/06/22 11:33

>Regex
It's very old and somewhat of a meme with the young geeks who consider it incomprehensible, aces who broke a leg or two in the field indicate skill-issue and laziness. Thought it might help me parsing old pages with just a little preparation, as basically every relevant software understands regex. Is there really no alternative for the Heretic in-game browser? You could've run Blasphemer with it as opposed to Freedoom, novelty feature but still. Here is a mobile device I got my hands on.

i.postimg.cc_g3jsjnxn_untitled.jpg

Anonymous, 2024/06/22 12:00

>in-game browser In-browser game? Or game-in browser? Well, whatever.

revae, 2024/06/22 22:51

Unfortunately I'm using retroarch so I'm stuck with what's available on their web-builds. They only have PRBoom iirc (but i'll look, they might have heretic/hexen). Might be able to do JS-DOS, but I was trying to move away from that since it required me manually patching EXEs with DEH files, and half the time it would break and be wasted effort. Also setting up individual htmls for every game. With the PRBoom core I just drop them into the proper Doom 1 or Doom 2 folder and rescan for new content.

Anonymous, 2024/06/22 23:56

Doesn't seem like RetroArch has it, or anything out there really. I'd say don't bother, too much trouble. There's no obvious solution except for the unwieldy dos emulation.

https://emulation.gametechwiki.com/index.php/Libretro

Anonymous, 2024/07/04 12:15

Desktop view gets broken when the number of characters exceeds 22 in the info table (look authorship), on mobile (width 1080px) number is 18. For a time being I'll assume it's a limitation you have to work around with, until better times.

revae, 2024/07/07 22:41, 2024/07/07 22:41

Seems the solution to that is to max the tablewidth at 9.5em. Hartlpool college has been updated to show that. It makes the info table a little thin, but I don't know of an alternative. I'll update the template.

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wiki/site_discussion.txt · Last modified: 2023/12/01 18:07 by A User Not Logged in